r/askpolitics transitions into the new year with a fresh topic - the T in LGBT
TL;DR self-perceived intellectuals get heated over a topic that probably affects more lawmakers than the actual community in question
OP asks:
Watching the news, I see a large majority of anti-trans opinions revolving exclusively around a) who’s using which bathroom and b) parity in grade school sports. Are there other factors? Is there a more broad discussion towards a trans persons own wellbeing (I.e. mental health, sense of personal identity)?
Considering so many other issues that could’ve been focused on for the 2024 election, why transgender regulations? What’s so controversial about it to have caused the Dylan Mulvaney Bud Light fiasco two years ago?
If we’re so focused on high school and collegiate sports, are we missing a larger picture?
There's a couple of juicy threads in here but IMO the juiciest one is this multi-threaded saga from this "Right-leaning" user:
There is a massive difference between the LGB and the T for me. LGB is a preference, who you want to choose to be with. I happen to think heterosexuality is the more naturally ordered preference, but a disordered preference is understandable—I have many disordered preferences myself with regard to other things.
The core of my issue with the Trans movement is how they attempt to obscure what a person truly is. I would honestly respect it more if they said “I’m a man who likes to wear women’s clothing and style myself femininely.” But no. They say “I AM A WOMAN.” Trans women ARE women.
But they aren’t. Sex is an immutable characteristic. Stop trying to convince us of what we all know to be false. And for the love of God stop trying to introduce social consequences for those of us who don’t use the (incorrect) pronouns. So trans people, if you want broad cultural acceptance, you must do 3 things:
Stop trying to bully, harass, and punish people who don’t buy your narrative. Stop gaslighting us. Men are men, women are women. Instead say “I’m a man who likes feminine things and identifies more with women.” Stop trying to involve kids. That’s never going to fly and is the main reason the tide has massively shifted against you. Do these three things and I’ll show you all the respect you deserve, and even use your preferred pronouns.
His logic (yes, I'm assuming his pronouns) is thrown back at him:
"I'll show you respect if you degrade yourself for me and agree that you're faking it *#)!#). Agree that the pronouns you request me use are incorrect and I'll use them"
The most conservative thing I've ever read. Would you ever be convinced with that argument?
Dear Conservatives: Just admit that you hate everyone that doesn't submit to you, that you are a nazi, stop criticizing my beliefs, and I'll respect you.
He feels degraded:
Acknowledging basic reality is degrading? How? It’s degrading to me every time my intelligence is insulted with the insistence that I use incorrect language.
I’m actually perfectly happy to use the pronouns someone chooses. I have a trans friend or two.
But they don’t try to tell me they REALLY ARE women. They don’t insult my intelligence with such claims. And so I treat them kindly and use the pronouns they wish, even though we both know I think they are incorrect
The thread has multiple other juicy subthreads. I'll end this post with an... interesting discussion on the intersection between science, history, and "reality". One commenter responds to Mr. Right-leaning with:
Have you considered the possibility that human understanding of biology and sex has been incorrect for thousands of years? We’re now able to break down the science and have learned that people fall on a wide array of spectrums. Chromosomes aren’t all the same, and many people are born with variances.
That doesn’t need to be an “attack” on what you’ve previously known, it’s just new information science and technology has allowed us to understand. Why is that so hard to accept? We’ve realized that what sits just below your waist is only one component of what constitutes your gender. So no, they aren’t gaslighting you. You’re just choosing to ignore reality, that we know more now and should adapt to this new information.
The kids thing is just…exhausting. The amount of children receiving gender-affirming care is ASTRONOMICALLY low. Like, nobody under 13 has EVER received surgery kind of low. It’s a complete non-issue, no children are being changed into another gender. So that makes me assume you’re referencing transgender people in public (doing drag shows/readings for kids/in media and movies). Why does it bother you that kids see transgender people? Should they not learn early that these people exist in our society and learn to accept them? Doesn’t science show us that exposure to other groups helps people become more accepting? So what’s the harm?
The response...
No, actually human understanding of sex has been correct for thousands of years and only recently has it become obscured. Most people understand this and few want to be told differently, hence why the trans issue is losing support rapidly